Jan Blommaert's powerful voice

In this monologue, Jan Blommaert’s long-time collaborator in different roles (student, colleague and friend) Jenny Van der Aa reflects on the intricacies of mentor-mentee relationships in academia. She crafts a space in which trust, intimacy, role play and generosity are carefully examined. She ultimately wants to lay bare structures of power that enhance and parachute, but that at the same time also restrict and stigmatize.

Dr Jenny Van der Aa is Senior Researcher and linguistic anthropologist at the Universities of Kampen (NL) and Leuven (Belgium), where she is involved with projects covering topics such as informal learning, church practice and the poetics of ‘integration’. Her most recent work deals with ethnographies of poverty and integration and will be published by Palgrave-MacMillan in the Spring.

Transcript

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Áine Mcallister: 0:13

Good afternoon, everyone i'd like to welcome you this afternoon to to jenny's Dr Jenny vendor as talk. On young long hearts and powerful voice, and many of you will know that Dr Jenny vendor as a senior researcher and linguistic am through apologist at the universities of camping and living. Where she's involved with projects covering topics such as informal learning church practice and the poetics of integration. Her most recent work deals with ethnography self poverty and integration, and that will be published by palgrave MacMillan in the spring. In this short monologue today this 30 minute monologue. And Jenny as younes long term collaborator in different roles, a student colleague and friend reflects on the intricacies of the mentor mentee relationships and academia and she crafts. A space here and shares it with us in which trust intimacy role play and generosity are carefully examined and ultimately. What she presents to us today lays bare structures of power and allows us to to analyze that together. So thank you for coming and welcome welcome Jenny and thank you very much i'm really excited to have you with us today speaking at the for the practices research network and to hear your presentation.

Jenny Van der Aa: 1:47

Thank you so much. Can you see me well.

Áine Mcallister: 3:38

Yes. Yes, we can.

Jenny Van der Aa: 3:47

Yes.

Áine Mcallister: 3:48

Yes, we can, yes, can you hear us.

Jenny Van der Aa: 3:52

Sorry, I still had it on mute can you repeat it on you.

Áine Mcallister: 3:54

Yes, I can hear you.

Jenny Van der Aa: 3:56

Okay fantastic so that was a production by the wingless angels called bright soul. Something young's favorites. Now, being a song may have been geezer evolutionary rhythm that is played in reggae young was a big fan and we'll listen to reggae throughout this session. i'm going to start with the first part of this presentation, called the working paper. get to the right slides. Dear. dear dear young, I have decided to write a bit about our life to bet you can't witness it anymore last year, my academic life was seriously disrupted by our policy on January 7 2021. I often wonder where you are now are you dining with Buddha or go somewhere, or is there nothing left to experience after his earthly existence only you know. When I heard the Museum of your expected death, I actually collapsed immediately that didn't clear up until much later in 2021. I could no longer call or APP I had lost as you want to put it my escape routes, how much the loss affected me no good accurately assess. People went on, with their lives with their academic trajectory and I stopped I didn't understand that I didn't want to understand that. In February of last year I collapse, with all the consequences in the summer I read your last book actually an essay beautifully published by commerce ECO molly. And then I realized that I have to find the strength to go at it again that I had to teach and do research, the way you described it so beautifully researchers teamwork teaching is inspiring. Research as teamwork and teaching as a spy inspiring I also realized that then, like you, I would collide with different conventions that happened as well. In one place, I tried to teach gender studies from a Marxist perspective elsewhere, I was the liberal often coach my PhD candidate invisibly from the shadows. And yet I have no regrets about what I did, after all, I speaking of to power, but, in defiance of power, as you so beautifully put it in dockworkers excellent documentary about your life which can still be viewed on YouTube. yeah my now discussing your style some lines of life that urgently need to be continued with your inspiration as an example. I base these are interview, the last interview you gave while alive on teams close to your heart teaching, research and activism, and I will. treat them in that older one teaching, we have an urgent need for research that deals with the figure of the teacher as a bridging figure is language and education. You belong to a generation of teachers who strongly believe that the kind of humanism and education, and so you start teaching, because you love people. You love the students in front of you, and you genuinely cared about them, and in that sense, for you teaching and all the activities that go with it, such as Tutoring we're all about giving. it's all about the other person it's all about the students, so you are a good teacher students basically learned from you, you are not a good teacher if you manage to produce extremely sophisticated powerpoints. or brilliant pros and so on, no, you are a good teacher if your students learn something from you and we have to adapt to students, the opposite is never true. We have to adapt the students or at least he used to tell your students in the first lecture of the year that you would aim an inch above their head. And they had to catch a little bit to fill that gap, so you have to elevate yourself a little bit to be with them and that's what students have to do. But all stop from a basic human altruism and you see your duty, the colleague that brings you into the classroom and makes you give to others, that what you have to give. And it's also that altruism that creates quality control or certain rigor when it comes to quality. You have to be demanding when you give things, it has to be good stuff, it has to be the best you have. So don't underestimate your students, make sure they stretch a little bit, but while you're doing that give them the very best you have don't give them the science that was relevant five years ago, or 10 years ago, give them the science, that is relevant now. to research, you indicated in your interview that the most important thing for you was informal learning informal learning. You have learning that it's organized through schools and other very recognizable organizations and institutions, but, of course, again, all this new technology is coming around the corner. There is a new learning environment that could support the learning environment and schools, but which is very often seen as negative as a kind of enemy of learning if children play video games eventually right a lot actually have you ever noticed how much your children right to their. classmates and they are playing video games or read their active on their smartphones this is often seen by mom and dad has anti learning, while he actually learned a lot. And it is precisely the interaction between formal and informal learning that you have always emphasized in all kinds of ways, one example. New technologies like smartphones and also brought new forms of literacy into our societies. Traditionally, literacy is something that is required from the top down, you know, so your generation young older people do which I almost belong myself by now. we're basically the agents of literacy that time teaching the younger generation, how to become literate all these new technologies have now turned it around. We have to learn from the younger generation how these new forms of literacy work and here's The interesting thing. Both of these services, for example, how to be successful on instagram have to be acquired informally in an extremely dense and extremely organized informal learning environment. So they have learning opportunities that we often overlook when you look at younger people's learning levels are the things that they're good at. You would have learned that from good that class late good progress to consider learning as everything that we acquired really everything. To consider learning everything that require in terms of knowledge and skills throughout life, including the bad things so that's all learning and it's the fundamental processes of learning that are changing now and we need to look at that. Three activism. activism has become a dirty word and, especially, an activist academic from a number of political positions and society is the ultimate enemy. and academic from a number of political positions is the ultimate identity, so an academic intellectual, who also has a political range of views ideas of principles. They are made active, hence the word activist in your life when you doubted the importance of what you were doing academically and that happens, quite often, the answer was provided by your activism. And that answer was because they needed it these activists Unionists but also school teachers you spent your life lecturing to non academic audiences. ranging from unions to individuals and organizations across the social spectrum and you are everywhere. You are literally everywhere, you also wrote 15 little books in Dutch, for which, of course, you never received any academic recognition. But they were vulgar is booklets that are used the union's continuing education programs, and so on. So the activists are also your audience and they told you that your academic work was valuable the activists told you that your academic work of valuable. They told you to keep going they told you to do more, they asked you questions that then became priorities in research for you, and in that sense it's basically your activism that kept you alive as an academic. Because we all have a question about relevance, are we relevant as academics. Your academic bustles will never give you a clear answer because you have to write an evaluation, every year, and there are non stop quality reviews, so you don't get the answer, then you get it in society at large. So the bottom line is finished his first part, No politician will ever answer your question about whether they are relevant, they are misplaced for that. don't worry about what they say just go on being activists you learn a tremendous amount outside the gates of the university. You learn a lot by talking to teachers, social workers police officers and so on you'll learn a lot and don't just do it in the context of fieldwork. Do it in the context of daily life don't do it just in the context fieldwork do it the context of daily life lovely young. lovely young, I will continue to teach and research, as I really only know in one way your way and may or voice there in resonate in the caverns of society, the margins of existence, the places where you so often and so gladly lingered. delirium i'm going to bring a double now for you on the rhythm called Guyanese dub reggae for rodney by Lyndon Johnson. You don't see how the top them just come sit upon me drink he set upon me dream, like a dark silk screen a dark silk screen more division, I have the vision, I have the vision, I had seen. So let's say that young walmart was a victim of disease someone says that he's gone through evidence and other says that young woman shouldn't take up is to wait and go carried on like we rock. But look how the client just come sit upon the dream, he sit upon me drink like a shout or scream or shout scream are really pretty sick when you spoke and the people they call me. So I say that young man was a prisoner of faith someone says that he's gone through the heroes gate someone says that young woman couldn't take is to wait so we took it on the back end where. The rate goes up Nora. But we will call my dream just get blown to smithereens he go to smithereens in the middle of the dream, the middle of the dream before the people that got me when young walmart smoke, the people they call. So I say that young drama was no shower for the scene and all that he wanted was the set of people with the workers and the teachers, we will cooperate but, like a fish to the book he got struck by cancer. See how my dream just gone blown to smithereens blown to smithereens in the middle of. the middle of the dream before the really cool i've seen the really cool thing with the people they call. So i'll say that young blah blah blah blah shock. And all that you wanted was to set people free we do, workers and the teachers would cooperate but, like a fish to the hook he got struck by cancer patients. See how my dream come just get blown to smithereens and brought us meddling in the middle of the dream, the middle of the dream before the really cool thing that really cool to see when the people that call me. The cigarettes. Cigarettes you blew smoke you blew smoke you blue one hell of a smoke that's what you did blue in the face in the faces of many. I have learned to appreciate the 30 minute ride from the note tilburg puffing away 10 cities or more, by the time we got to tilburg. And could barely see each other or words that resonated across the agrarian fields between to how to deal Burke. Ideas about the better world a better humanity holding hands and super diversity bonnie centricity African authors and books ken's mental. Jim can you go and buy me some marissa 50 euros you think that's enough for a couple of packs history, I ran to the supermarket at the outer corner of university premises. Without smoke no words and words are important to lavish myself in order to write that PhD at all. What a dark day that was dark and deep the land was shattering as they took away our desks in the smoking booth. Where we had so dutifully and diligently shared or dots on Caribbean schoolchildren hidden away in a post colonial context hidden from the world in a bearish behind god's back. God, not a topic you wanted to talk about very often you are an atheist, you said, but you respected and research them. Those with the headscarf who had all the right and the beauty all the female beauty to wear the headscarf for hours on end, you will transcribe comment on, we transcribe or mix. And receptor Their stories only to say that in all right, they could wear the headscarf politics racial inequality all but not to talk about God that Where are you now Where are you now. Young it was raining you didn't feel well, you had a sore throat, you said, while smoking and sweating heavily your wrinkles and rimmed had. More fedora really resonated with the colorful scarf that beautifully adorned your character head. You told me you wish, you could put yourself, full of drugs and ride endlessly vigorously to finish everything you wanted to say, still say. Many lines withdraw many more to be finished, we were walking than standing smoking walking running and finally standing in the pouring rain waiting for your taxi to come to bring you home. The corner of the accountability tilburg university, we were standing smoking running stabbing a place you change so profoundly nothing's left of it anymore, now that you have left. I wanted to hold you there young in the rain and tell you that everything will be okay, but in my heart, I knew it was not going to be that way, not the way I wanted it to be. There you stood a monument a muscle don't linguistic anthropology itself research gate or paper skyrocketed and my impact rose rose higher than the sky. But then, you told me to think and I knew I felt it long time coming, and how you were torn. And how you make the bill of your life in less than 20 minutes and how the monument was demolished in the middle of the dream, the middle of the dream and the people they come in let's listen to one final song that I would like to play for y'all. very short one actually. Let me see where you guys are at. The International. Thank you so much.

Áine Mcallister: 23:53

Kenny Thank you so much, thank you for that that really fabulously engaging unique presentation and really. Poignant and really powerful and yeah my i'm absolutely it's really revitalizing and to be able to engage in in that. And to hear that I think that lots of people are clapping their hands, and I think lots of people that are going to have questions and comments for you, it was truly moving truly original at just wonderful at there's some and. I you started by by talking about. approaches to teaching and research, which I found really emboldening. You know so often we we think are the implication is that to move from teaching away from teaching to researchers is a mark of transcend transcendence but actually what you presented was a. The idea that what's transcendental is to approach both teaching the teaching and learning space and research in the same way, could you tell us a little bit more about that and.

Jenny Van der Aa: 25:09

I think we all sort of sometimes think like oh no, you have to teach again, but for young teaching was always very extremely important you know. It was instilling in the soon as his students a soul of appreciation sort of getting along with the material to sort of. savor the material and when I was 19 I sent a letter to get apologies they'll himes writing to him cuz ya'll said, or you could just write it. And I sent him a letter and asking him about you know that no poetic detail in my analysis and he wrote me back actually. one page on the answer to the detail at 19 pages on sort of why I had to become an anthropologist. And many, many students say that to me after i'm sort of involved in class with them that you know that they want more of that you know that they. That they want more and I wrote the small poetry beast with you on you and I can quickly share that when I was teaching in the morning and just now. I was expected to fulfill a specific role, I was expected to know about gender gender is social class I started to talk about marks. The students wanted more bloomer more walmart more walmart more marks I couldn't give them that, from the directional. More business, they said, you need to teach more business more business, you cannot understand gender if you don't understand social glass. And so on the ball goes on for that a little bit, but the point is that you know, we should give them more and less of capitalism, I think, and give them more of a sort of sharing. Give them more teachings that have real sense to their lives that speak to them and start from the live world in which they are used to sort of. connecting with with which they are supposed to connect with, and so on, so we definitely young did very well at full gambit very well.

Áine Mcallister: 27:12

I think that you really conveyed a sense of reverence and the generosity of spirit and humility that you know I think we that isn't it is something that we all. would hope to emulate and try to and and you've just talked to you refer to that to to the poem in which you. You say you you, you cannot understand gender if you don't understand class and something in your. In what you've just read read to us in your presentation as well, you talked about experiencing collision with different conventions, when you tried to teach gender studies from a Marxist perspective, and I just love to hear why you why you think that is the way to approach it.

Jenny Van der Aa: 28:01

yeah I think. First of all, gender as a category holds together with many other categories, and I think we should study it as a whole, I think it's very important. Also, not only in the classroom but also for unified struggle and that's The thing that often intersection ality lacks is that of course we have. A rightfully so all these different categories piled on top of each other or with a different struggles and you know all their different problems and issues, which of course we. are worth fighting for which we should fight for, but sometimes by doing these separate categories, we and not seeing them as linked together. We often forget about unification of the struggle which ultimately comes down to the fact that there is not a possibility for a lot of change under this current system. And then the current education system and the recurrence system that oppresses women. That oppresses immigrants and so on, so I think that to unify the struggle with make also our teaching much stronger and teaching from that perspective. which, basically, is a struggle and a perspective that goes against capitalism, which basically lets us see an alternative for Tina Tina the 1970s 1980s. slogan, there is no alternative, and a lot of us have grown up in times and the Berlin Wall has fallen down with China is basically market capitalism North korea's to beat the online. We still have some sort of different system in Cuba but it's all watered down and it's all sort of an old world which and even though there were many different problems and all those different world systems that. We still could see at one point and alternative for capitalism and I think that, nowadays, it is very difficult to see that alternative and also in our teaching, we can often not see beyond the fact that. There is one issue that we're dealing with or one issue that were involved in, and it also goes back to the Wharf or good friend Benjamin Lee Wharf linguistic anthropologists we said, you know the sappy Wharf. thesis up with with his good friend that works here. about the fact that. Language actually for goes thought so gender and all these other categories are constructed language and so these discursive constructs also add together really closely and are produced in a by language. and therefore it is very important, how we teach the kind of language that we use the way we construct carefully these frameworks, and you know in some. senses in my last engagement, so to speak, I wasn't really able to bring that out, I would need a couple of classes to do to sketch that framework. I can't do that in a couple of minutes you know, and so, for the students, it was very, very. Hard that you know we have to move on, because they needed more business texts, you know, and I was just pressing home with you know, we need more, they were pressing on to me with we need more mark more boulevard you know. And so I wasn't able to give that to them at that point that maybe later on.

Áine Mcallister: 31:14

And I before I open the floor to other questions as i'm another points for discussion, I think that another thing that really struck me was when you said that you speak not to power, you quoted. lamar young long heart, and I speak not to power, but, in defiance of it, and I think that that. is reflected in the choice of form that you've that you've used to to give presentation today that that that choice of forum in itself is an active an active resistance and and not only have you chosen poetry, but reggae and and and perhaps you could tell us speak a little bit to that.

Jenny Van der Aa: 31:56

yeah I think first of all reggae was one of your favorite Jones and I remember, we danced at my PhD Defense to realize, we had a nice reggae party. And it was a lot of fun, but it's all about voice I think voice is having the capacity. To be heard and understood on your own terms and a lot of us are good at certain genres are good at poetry or playwriting. or academic writing or a good at you know certain rock at rap or whatever comes to mind, and you know those kinds of genres should get more attention within the Academy, and I think bringing alternative voices to the fore, by using these different more revolutionary types of. forms would would definitely bring about a little bit of change in that in that in that in that sort of. You know what sometimes he seen as a hermetic world and a lot of people have already tried this and are doing this and are really successful at this, so I am hopeful that and also to go back to Wharf once again. form we hear really underscores function, so the worst can be powerful with spoken in a certain form the words can be powerful and spoken in a certain poetic form, for instance. that's what you also see in the type of analysis, which is called at nobu ethics in which you sort of look at the form of someone's speech and try to see how the form really underscores the function. And this is something that young also in his life really much stressful is the sort of relativity of form and function, so that you sort of have this. idea of something that can have one different form can have very many different functions in the whole world and newspaper that's an idea can be used completely different from newspapers, Belgium, for instance, so so so the. Similar form can have very different functions and you see that poetry get definitely you know, bring to the fore words and addresses that cannot be spoken, otherwise I think.

Áine Mcallister: 34:05

yeah and I yeah and I think that that I that's what draws me to yang's work and also two years that preoccupation with the idea that and. that we need to respond to to the to the issue that if you don't speak right in it in a particular way then then you're not heard and if and and what happens to those voices then and what what do we miss when we don't hear them and so yeah just thank you very much again. It was inspirational and do we do we have any questions or comments. From the floor at this point.

Jenny Van der Aa: 35:01

I think he wants to ask something.

Áine Mcallister: 35:03

Oh yes. Please do.

Lode Vermeersch (KULeuven - Belgium): 35:08

Just a small question, building on your line of reasoning you just mentioned Jenny would you say that in the academic world we're stuck in the in the same form over and over again. And we should get try to get out of this by, for instance, producing more more more monologues and more poems like uses.

Jenny Van der Aa: 35:31

yeah i'm currently involved Thank you so much for that question rolled out currently involved with one of my MBA students in research project or menstruation poverty and the fact that young girls are unable to you know buy. menstruation products of all kinds and that they're too expensive and so on. And we're actually. So interviewing some of the girls and rendering their voices but. we're using the voices of the girls to sort of speak to us in a boy degree and we're capturing that in poetry. But we're also currently working on doing the methodology and balletic form so i've recently presented in another workshop. Where poetry is sort of used as a research means, this is also a venue where that often happens i've discussed borne by by myself, which is basically rendering governance work. into poetic form, so that the methodology also becomes a book report on so we're gonna we're gonna push for that, I mean it seems to be to be to be put forward in. poetry, you know and sort of have both the methodology and the, so I think, in that sense form really is an important aspect of what we're doing and. The kind of form that we use as academics is at the kind of form that is relatable for people at the pinnacle of society and people at the pinnacle of of knowledge of so a democratic knowledge sharing. is also involved when rendering digs poetic athletics be let's letting people be heard on their own terms and i'll be glad to do is also bring the poems back to the girls and sort of speak with them. and see let them see themselves within within the poetry and sort of have them comment on it, and you know, maybe laugh with a joke with it. change it so so, so in that sense, you really bring back knowledge from. What you've what you've recorded through a sort of poetic mill and you bring it back to the people that you were involved with, so I think all those things go together, I think that the form in which you present things. Also, can make it more democratic and that it immediately as an influence on bringing back the people into the research as well and that's very difficult bit of paper if I would rather a highly. skilled academic paper, and I will bring that back to the forms they would barely recognize themselves. And I had someone say when I read your paper Jenny it was like I was looking into a broken up beer so looking into something that you know was sort of that doesn't exclude us from writing academic papers it's not one or the other it's just you know we could do both.

Áine Mcallister: 38:32

Thank you for that question and and if either any other questions. In risk. either in response to that are on any separate points. From the floor. Otherwise i'd like to to just open the discussion a little bit about and you've talked about form poetic form Jenny but. Of course, and and and the fact that it's not either or and that they don't have to be mutually exclusive conventional academic forum and poetic form, but I also think it's interesting to think about and talk about using a poetic lens for analysis and, of course, that.

Jenny Van der Aa: 39:15

Is not.

Áine Mcallister: 39:16

Does not absent rigor and attention, then, and so you know how what's to be gained from using an applied ethno poetic lens in analysis and how it requires, and you know extreme attentiveness.

Jenny Van der Aa: 39:36

You know I think we should be extremely attentive to that detail that you know the informants that we work with the people that we work with. are speaking and listen we'd love to listen with a big heart, we need to listen to all the details and bring out the details in a very. Good transcription transcribing is not something I often am surprised when people are outsourcing their transcription. practices, I understand that, I mean i've had i've done it before myself. But I had a big corpus and so on, but actually it's been pretty strange if you think about it, because it is us outsourcing this to someone who hasn't heard the people speak the words. And so, how can you bring in the kind of voice the kind of words to kind of hard that was spoken within that political. When you haven't transcribe it yourself so doing a very good transcription is first of all, doing justice an honor to the kind of words that were spoken and then I think. Doing an athletic analysis brings issues of voice to the forefront, as I mentioned earlier. Make sure that people are hurt on their own terms the things that are being missed often are being recognized everybody wants to do research with social workers. in Antwerp for six years and we actually noticed that there was a lot of narrative but one would say, for example in intake conversations, a lot of narrative backing so so people were. Trying to quickly wrap up so to narratively back at the story for the next person in the line that was a social worker to, and then they had to back it's for social worker tree, you know narratively sort of. sort of sort of sort of make it into a small piece, and by doing that they actually this several. really interesting and really important stories that people were about to tell that they were bursting out to tell, but that they weren't told, because the space was not given. By the social worker in question for the clients to tell the story. So they often miss narrative opportunities and by doing that the poetic analysis, you are able to bring to the forefront the type of analyses in social work that I really think we need. That sort of see here, then the speaker the client was trying to bring in a story and remind them missed it. You know, and so we look at these narrative moments these narrative possibilities with social workers and we actually developed a narrative protocol. so that you know they could better pay attention to the kind of stories that were missed, you know already kind of information that would have been missed. So, so that, in that sense, you know the the narrative genre is the interviews are by which people are often taken long, like, for example in taking this is a very specific genre. And you only do it perhaps once in your life so and immediately people have to be able to be in the right genre it's like doing a PhD Defense. I didn't hit or miss so with an intake interview you sort of immediately, it has to go well, and the standard is immediately said, if I take you in. If you're a client on you, I would say your name is mcallister anya, I will start with your last name which immediately sets the frame for formality of the whole thing. So people have to be capable, to talk within the genre. To be capable, to bring their story and to bring it in at the right time for it not to be missed by social worker so it's very difficult for the client and for social worker. don't discursive they produce appropriate knowledge to sort of bring this further you know, bring the process of intake further to give the appropriate care, maybe psychological care. Maybe there's people who are being abused, which needs to be taken care of before they can live on their own, you know it, so all these things that's what at robotics can do. yeah.

Áine Mcallister: 43:45

And I read something this morning and in at the moment in the UK, the the new the proposed borders and nationality bill is being discussed, and I think i've written down, something that that. Baroness said that some people may simply not. Have know the right language so they so it speaks to what you were just talking about and. In other words, they don't know what's being asked of them and. And so, and the system presumes then that failures of language indicate deceit. Yes, so I think that that that's another you know that's Another implication for considering and the poetic lens and applied ethno poetic analysis and and and really carefully considering the framework that we use to to assess people's truths.

Jenny Van der Aa: 44:44

or absolutely yes, yes that's that's that's a that's a it's an epistemology you know people speak in a certain epistemology and when we're not part of that epistemology we cannot understand them properly. If you see an asylum interview, for example, it is the epistemology are very quick succession of question and answers. Are you from there, I can you name the last presidents of booking our fossil. Can you produce this information so it's a very quick succession of question and answers in an episode Monty, which is still seeking, which wants to. You have a yes or no, and within the epistemology of the asylum seeker, this is a very different the epistemology in which one wants to maybe bring stories in bring experiencing, and so this is the model of the class and our yeah sort of.

Áine Mcallister: 45:34

And that's where a lot voices last system.

Jenny Van der Aa: 45:36

as well, which is lost. Yes, yes, exactly, and that is where I had no poetics. which we also did bit asylum seekers and the silent goes ours. We make transcriptions of these missed opportunities and of these epistemologies and so then show them to sign up bonus also see the scene, where you're missing opportunities. And that work has been ongoing and it's still done by a thread my friends with very good cooperate also have your robot and he works. on the side of court cases, so the work has been bitten by lots of people so that that's a good idea y'all may be gone, but he said don't look at me look at what's behind me what's beyond me and so that's what we're supposed to do, I think.

Áine Mcallister: 46:17

yeah and that's that's what you, you are doing, and thank you and do we have any any further questions. or. or Jenny as it is there, are there any particular parts of your monologue that you would like to. draw attention to, or two to point out, with regards to what your. What it was that you thought was important to say.

Jenny Van der Aa: 46:49

yeah, the most important thing to say, I think, is the fact that, when someone is gone it doesn't mean their work is gone and we have everything you have and. We shouldn't go looking corners and details, because for young everything is open access on the Internet, the publisher is often like that you would publish your book. beforehand so and then have it published one day later. By the by the publisher would have it entirely available in free form out the day before so i'm very. weary of that myself, but I do it myself to make it available to make it to be generous about things I think that's what I wanted to convey today.

Áine Mcallister: 47:37

Okay yeah and I think you really you know that was very. Clearly conveyed in the in the in the when you were talking about.

Jenny Van der Aa: 47:49

teams, you have a minute there's been someone at my door for like a three times calling already I don't we just. Get.

Áine Mcallister: 47:57

Just a second. Do we have any any other and voices and any other points that we that we'd like to discuss and regarding jenny's wonderful presentation wonderful monologue.

Thomas Weyts: 48:26

I would like to make a short innovation if possible.

Áine Mcallister: 48:30

Yes, please.

Thomas Weyts: 48:34

Do you see my video no.

Áine Mcallister: 48:36

No, we can't.

Thomas Weyts: 48:37

Do it okay okay. i'm sorry. I I would. like to bring up. A memory too young and and a call if, in fact, I think the first time as a sudden the young student I heard. Your name was in 1992 when, together with chef a shooter he wrote a book. On the migration debate in Belgium, after the first big victory of the far right of flowers bloom and at that moment the book was really influential in the debates. And in in in and helped also building the anti racist movement, so I think la the SS you know we still confronted with that far right party and the only became stronger to the years. And, and I think it's really important that intellectuals academics. Yes, again make this kind of activist activist and academic intervention because because there was a lot of thinking behind the book and and young but also chef issue today, they didn't hesitate to. To to go to the debates. All to the country for months on end, so I really think how they either Jenny, of course, she she she talked a lot about it but it's it's really a call don't. We need this, we need this also in in social movements among activists, we need this kind of interventions and on that level someone like him will will be. sorely missed that's for sure.

Áine Mcallister: 50:42

Thank you very much.

Jenny Van der Aa: 50:45

Thank you so much, and I think you know the book that you mentioned, was an extremely important book and it should be translated in English urgently.

Thomas Weyts: 50:55

it's it's a good The good news is that it has been re re. edited espn related. is already a big digging in founders to get your book re edited after, especially after 30 years.

Jenny Van der Aa: 51:12

And I when I break my leg, the next time I will translate it.

Áine Mcallister: 51:23

Thank you, do we have any further questions for Jenny. Okay um I think i'd like to thank you all Jenny if you have any closing comments.

Jenny Van der Aa: 51:44

I want to thank everyone for coming out this has been really, really, really a pleasure to do this to make this to fabricate this and to find the the creative venue that is interested in it, so thank you also on you, thank you for. Giving this opportunity and yeah she was also in other constellations.

Áine Mcallister: 52:06

Okay, we, we have a. We have a comment from Patricia she wants to say thank you to choose from, and Patricia is joining us from.

Jenny Van der Aa: 52:16

The weekend.

Áine Mcallister: 52:17

So thank you for that.

Jenny Van der Aa: 52:18

Nice meeting all of you. Yes.

Tine Van Regenmortel: 52:24

In.

Jenny Van der Aa: 52:27

boulder.